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	<title>Comments on: A not-so-squishy post about a real waste of taxpayer $$$&#8217;s!</title>
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	<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/#utm_source=feed&#038;utm_medium=feed&#038;utm_campaign=feed?utm_source=rss&#038;utm_medium=rss&#038;utm_campaign=a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s</link>
	<description>Scribbling some perspective on Canada, Ottawa and whatever else crosses my mind...</description>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-288</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 13:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-288</guid>
		<description>How&#039;s this for a waste?

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/03/30/walsh-tsb-pay.html

$300k over 2 years, and didn&#039;t show up for work because he&#039;s facing CRIMINAL CHARGES.

The guy was appointed by the Liberals, showing that any government is capable of wasting our money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How&#8217;s this for a waste?</p>
<p><a href="http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/03/30/walsh-tsb-pay.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.cbc.ca/canada/newfoundland-labrador/story/2009/03/30/walsh-tsb-pay.html</a></p>
<p>$300k over 2 years, and didn&#8217;t show up for work because he&#8217;s facing CRIMINAL CHARGES.</p>
<p>The guy was appointed by the Liberals, showing that any government is capable of wasting our money.</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 18:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-266</guid>
		<description>I see your point, but it\&#039;s pretty difficult to argue that a quarter million dollar parade is anything but wasteful, and I\&#039;m saying that as a soldier.  I suppose there\&#039;s an element of ass-kissing at the high levels (Hey rick, I gave you that quarter million dollar send off, now how\&#039;s about finangling something for me), but that\&#039;s still wasteful.

The travel expenses I still think are a bargain.  It *seems* wasteful because most people don\&#039;t ever experience a job like that.  If I was in her shoes... let\&#039;s see.

40 trips a year, of which about 3/4 are first-class.  So let\&#039;s say 10 trips at ~$2000 (full fare economy in north america due to changing scheds and short notice), and 30 trips at $5000:  travel costs $170,000

40 weeks in hotels.  using the same general logic as the travel calc\&#039;s, that\&#039;s 30 weeks at European/asian prices ($500/night) and about 10 weeks at north american big-city prices ($400/night).  Meals allowance about $40 per day for the entire time (less than what Trashee might see because entertainment expenses will cover some too):  Living expenses $144,000

Entertainment expenses... hmm that\&#039;s a tougher one.  Let\&#039;s say one Canada-paid event/party/ass-kissing session/fancy dinner every 2 weeks, for a handful of people.  A $5000 budget should cover it each time.  Entertainment expenses: $100,000.

Darin\&#039;s estimate: $414,000.  That\&#039;s not being extravagant by any means.

Seriously, her expense claims don\&#039;t seem to be wasteful.  The real question is whether or not her whole JOB is necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your point, but it\&#8217;s pretty difficult to argue that a quarter million dollar parade is anything but wasteful, and I\&#8217;m saying that as a soldier.  I suppose there\&#8217;s an element of ass-kissing at the high levels (Hey rick, I gave you that quarter million dollar send off, now how\&#8217;s about finangling something for me), but that\&#8217;s still wasteful.</p>
<p>The travel expenses I still think are a bargain.  It *seems* wasteful because most people don\&#8217;t ever experience a job like that.  If I was in her shoes&#8230; let\&#8217;s see.</p>
<p>40 trips a year, of which about 3/4 are first-class.  So let\&#8217;s say 10 trips at ~$2000 (full fare economy in north america due to changing scheds and short notice), and 30 trips at $5000:  travel costs $170,000</p>
<p>40 weeks in hotels.  using the same general logic as the travel calc\&#8217;s, that\&#8217;s 30 weeks at European/asian prices ($500/night) and about 10 weeks at north american big-city prices ($400/night).  Meals allowance about $40 per day for the entire time (less than what Trashee might see because entertainment expenses will cover some too):  Living expenses $144,000</p>
<p>Entertainment expenses&#8230; hmm that\&#8217;s a tougher one.  Let\&#8217;s say one Canada-paid event/party/ass-kissing session/fancy dinner every 2 weeks, for a handful of people.  A $5000 budget should cover it each time.  Entertainment expenses: $100,000.</p>
<p>Darin\&#8217;s estimate: $414,000.  That\&#8217;s not being extravagant by any means.</p>
<p>Seriously, her expense claims don\&#8217;t seem to be wasteful.  The real question is whether or not her whole JOB is necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-263</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Mar 2009 15:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-263</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t say I was outraged at the $400k spent by the bureaucrat.  I&#039;m in agreement that if you have to travel, then the employer should pay for it, and the employee shouldn&#039;t be doing it on the el-cheapo.

That being said, however, waste of taxpayers&#039; funds in many cases is subjective.  I&#039;d bet that there&#039;s a lot of supporters of the military that would say spending $250k on the ceremony isn&#039;t wasteful.

$250k is a lot, but so is $400k, so the question we have to ask ourselves: Is there value for the money being spent?  Once again, the answers to that are, in all likelihood, subjective.

If the $250k was spent on preserving Lester B Pearson&#039;s legacy, would you still be outraged?  How about spending the funds on Pierre Trudeau or Tommy Douglas?

My original comment was me acting as a devil&#039;s advocate (which is what I usually do when people take an extreme view on something ;-)  Just ask Darin about recent comments about the environment ;-) ).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t say I was outraged at the $400k spent by the bureaucrat.  I&#8217;m in agreement that if you have to travel, then the employer should pay for it, and the employee shouldn&#8217;t be doing it on the el-cheapo.</p>
<p>That being said, however, waste of taxpayers&#8217; funds in many cases is subjective.  I&#8217;d bet that there&#8217;s a lot of supporters of the military that would say spending $250k on the ceremony isn&#8217;t wasteful.</p>
<p>$250k is a lot, but so is $400k, so the question we have to ask ourselves: Is there value for the money being spent?  Once again, the answers to that are, in all likelihood, subjective.</p>
<p>If the $250k was spent on preserving Lester B Pearson&#8217;s legacy, would you still be outraged?  How about spending the funds on Pierre Trudeau or Tommy Douglas?</p>
<p>My original comment was me acting as a devil&#8217;s advocate (which is what I usually do when people take an extreme view on something <img src='http://trashysworld.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />   Just ask Darin about recent comments about the environment <img src='http://trashysworld.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-259</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:53:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-259</guid>
		<description>That particular captcha system is loathesome by the way.  it fails a good 30-40% of the time for me, and I have good eyesight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That particular captcha system is loathesome by the way.  it fails a good 30-40% of the time for me, and I have good eyesight.</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-258</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 19:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-258</guid>
		<description>Oh yeah... it\&#039;s brutal.  In my olde job I was on the road about 50% of the time.  I finally got fed up when security guys at O\&#039;Hare were on a first-name basis with me.  You should not see baggage checkers at foreign airports so often that they recognize you and you can chat on a first-name basis... that\&#039;s no disrespect for them either.

MSN was the only way my friends and I could keep connected (2 of them worked for the same company, with the same travelling issues).  We\&#039;d have MSN chats with one guy in switzerland, one in texas and one in Japan.  Ugh.  On those rare times we\&#039;d be in town and go out for dinner and suddenly realize \&quot;hey, does anyone have canadian money?\&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh yeah&#8230; it\&#8217;s brutal.  In my olde job I was on the road about 50% of the time.  I finally got fed up when security guys at O\&#8217;Hare were on a first-name basis with me.  You should not see baggage checkers at foreign airports so often that they recognize you and you can chat on a first-name basis&#8230; that\&#8217;s no disrespect for them either.</p>
<p>MSN was the only way my friends and I could keep connected (2 of them worked for the same company, with the same travelling issues).  We\&#8217;d have MSN chats with one guy in switzerland, one in texas and one in Japan.  Ugh.  On those rare times we\&#8217;d be in town and go out for dinner and suddenly realize \&quot;hey, does anyone have canadian money?\&quot;</p>
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		<title>By: trashee</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-254</link>
		<dc:creator>trashee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 16:47:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-254</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s the perception of the bureaucrat that hurts. I travel - not as much as some folks - quite sensibly... taking advantage of early-bird registration, staying in resonable hotels, etc.
But travel is NOT a perq and is a pain in the ass sometimes - especially if one has little kids - lotsa extra pressure on one&#039;s spouse. And folks at DFO DO have to travel quite extensively. A buddy of mine is fairly high up on the food chain over there and he goes hither and nither working on stuff like treaties and catch quotas - pretty important things. 
One recent trip had him travel to Belgium and then Finland and back to Ottawa - in 2 days - no hotel cuz he slept on the plane... he could have justifiably and within regulation done a Saturday night stayover and seen a bit of Helsinki.. but he wanted to get back home to his wife and young son... plus, in his absence, he had an important meeting scheduled for him 1 hour after landing in Ottawa on the Friday afternoon. In all - even figuring in lost savings due to not have the stayover, he figgers he saved about 2 grand total... 
Definitely NOT a perq, eh?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the perception of the bureaucrat that hurts. I travel &#8211; not as much as some folks &#8211; quite sensibly&#8230; taking advantage of early-bird registration, staying in resonable hotels, etc.<br />
But travel is NOT a perq and is a pain in the ass sometimes &#8211; especially if one has little kids &#8211; lotsa extra pressure on one&#8217;s spouse. And folks at DFO DO have to travel quite extensively. A buddy of mine is fairly high up on the food chain over there and he goes hither and nither working on stuff like treaties and catch quotas &#8211; pretty important things.<br />
One recent trip had him travel to Belgium and then Finland and back to Ottawa &#8211; in 2 days &#8211; no hotel cuz he slept on the plane&#8230; he could have justifiably and within regulation done a Saturday night stayover and seen a bit of Helsinki.. but he wanted to get back home to his wife and young son&#8230; plus, in his absence, he had an important meeting scheduled for him 1 hour after landing in Ottawa on the Friday afternoon. In all &#8211; even figuring in lost savings due to not have the stayover, he figgers he saved about 2 grand total&#8230;<br />
Definitely NOT a perq, eh?</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-251</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:34:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-251</guid>
		<description>Bleah, I can&#039;t edit the comment, the number I get is $462k, not $345k... I forgot to add in the airfare to the total number.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bleah, I can&#8217;t edit the comment, the number I get is $462k, not $345k&#8230; I forgot to add in the airfare to the total number.</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-250</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 13:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-250</guid>
		<description>Sorry for so many comments, but I want to drive home the $400k thing for Ken because it&#039;s very different.

As you may know, I went to work a week in Switzerland - a trip that got extended to 9 days.  The lodging rate at the airport Hilton (a middle-of-the-road hotel) was 420 francs per night.  Breakfast was typically 50 francs, lunch was usually around the same, and dinner was typically 120.  640 francs per day just on room and board.  That&#039;s 5760 francs for the week and at the exchange rate of the time, about $6900.  Add in $5k for airfare (dude you fly business class for flight that long, it&#039;s the standard in industry and a civil servant should expect the same) and you have an expense claim of just shy of $12k for little more than a week with NO extravagance and no entertainment expenses required.  Now multiply that by 40 weeks of work.  Now add in, say, 25% (which is probably skimping) because the DFO person is required to entertain heads of state, high ranking officials.  let&#039;s see... I come up with $345k as a back-of-the-napkin calculation.

I&#039;d say $400k shows remarkable restraint.

The question should be whether or not we got anything for it?  Are our treaties, obligations and relations better for the money spent?  If they are, then it&#039;s a job well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry for so many comments, but I want to drive home the $400k thing for Ken because it&#8217;s very different.</p>
<p>As you may know, I went to work a week in Switzerland &#8211; a trip that got extended to 9 days.  The lodging rate at the airport Hilton (a middle-of-the-road hotel) was 420 francs per night.  Breakfast was typically 50 francs, lunch was usually around the same, and dinner was typically 120.  640 francs per day just on room and board.  That&#8217;s 5760 francs for the week and at the exchange rate of the time, about $6900.  Add in $5k for airfare (dude you fly business class for flight that long, it&#8217;s the standard in industry and a civil servant should expect the same) and you have an expense claim of just shy of $12k for little more than a week with NO extravagance and no entertainment expenses required.  Now multiply that by 40 weeks of work.  Now add in, say, 25% (which is probably skimping) because the DFO person is required to entertain heads of state, high ranking officials.  let&#8217;s see&#8230; I come up with $345k as a back-of-the-napkin calculation.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say $400k shows remarkable restraint.</p>
<p>The question should be whether or not we got anything for it?  Are our treaties, obligations and relations better for the money spent?  If they are, then it&#8217;s a job well done.</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-249</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-249</guid>
		<description>In 1983 my &quot;bad attitude&quot; got me assigned extra drill that made me march the equivalent of about 120 miles.

I was base duty officer at a certain Canadian base so often that fully 2 years after I left the military, I was able to free finangle temporary officer&#039;s quarters.  , I was with some friends and we blew a tire on the highway.  We showed up at said base and because people recognized me or asssumed I was on duty again, we got rooms as &quot;transient officers&quot;.  I filled out all the paperwork (with no names of course) and left early in the morning to avoid the MPs. :)  That boosted my morale :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In 1983 my &#8220;bad attitude&#8221; got me assigned extra drill that made me march the equivalent of about 120 miles.</p>
<p>I was base duty officer at a certain Canadian base so often that fully 2 years after I left the military, I was able to free finangle temporary officer&#8217;s quarters.  , I was with some friends and we blew a tire on the highway.  We showed up at said base and because people recognized me or asssumed I was on duty again, we got rooms as &#8220;transient officers&#8221;.  I filled out all the paperwork (with no names of course) and left early in the morning to avoid the MPs. <img src='http://trashysworld.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   That boosted my morale <img src='http://trashysworld.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://trashysworld.ca/2009/03/25/a-not-so-squishy-post-about-a-real-waste-of-taxpayer-s/comment-page-1/#comment-248</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 12:06:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://trashysworld.ca/?p=825#comment-248</guid>
		<description>As a sidebar (thus a separate comment)... when I was serving, I often fought the morale battle.  People senior to me (irrespective of my rank) always seemed to think that a parade boosts morale.  I had a lot of conversations like this:

OCdt / 2Lt / Lt / Capt Squid: Sir, I really think we could do something more useful on Friday than a parade.  The men are overworked and cranky.
Lt / Capt / Maj / Col PITA: No, the men will love a parade... gives them a break, raises morale.  Get &#039;em formed up at 0630.
Squid: Sir, 3 promotions ago, did you enjoy staying up all night to polish your boots and then forming up at 0-dark-30 so some gold-wearing jackass can look at your butt for lint?
PITA: No, but i don&#039;t see where you&#039;re going with this.
Squid: Did it improve your morale?
PITA: I liked being outside.
Squid: That&#039;s not what I asked.  Give the men the day off.  Hell, tell them to wash your car, do your wife&#039;s laundry and give them the day off and they&#039;ll still be happier than a $)#(*#($* parade.  They&#039;ll respect you for giving a shit and morale will improve.  Or at least do nothing.  A parade is like a punishment.
PITA: You have a bad attitude Mr. Squid.
Squid: No sir, I think I&#039;m the only sane person in the air force.
PITA: Well you can think about being sane on duty for the next 3 weekends.

My whole career was like that :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a sidebar (thus a separate comment)&#8230; when I was serving, I often fought the morale battle.  People senior to me (irrespective of my rank) always seemed to think that a parade boosts morale.  I had a lot of conversations like this:</p>
<p>OCdt / 2Lt / Lt / Capt Squid: Sir, I really think we could do something more useful on Friday than a parade.  The men are overworked and cranky.<br />
Lt / Capt / Maj / Col PITA: No, the men will love a parade&#8230; gives them a break, raises morale.  Get &#8216;em formed up at 0630.<br />
Squid: Sir, 3 promotions ago, did you enjoy staying up all night to polish your boots and then forming up at 0-dark-30 so some gold-wearing jackass can look at your butt for lint?<br />
PITA: No, but i don&#8217;t see where you&#8217;re going with this.<br />
Squid: Did it improve your morale?<br />
PITA: I liked being outside.<br />
Squid: That&#8217;s not what I asked.  Give the men the day off.  Hell, tell them to wash your car, do your wife&#8217;s laundry and give them the day off and they&#8217;ll still be happier than a $)#(*#($* parade.  They&#8217;ll respect you for giving a shit and morale will improve.  Or at least do nothing.  A parade is like a punishment.<br />
PITA: You have a bad attitude Mr. Squid.<br />
Squid: No sir, I think I&#8217;m the only sane person in the air force.<br />
PITA: Well you can think about being sane on duty for the next 3 weekends.</p>
<p>My whole career was like that <img src='http://trashysworld.ca/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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