Why not to vote for Harper… Part 4

Now that I’m back in the country, I thought it time to continue the “Don’t Vote For Harper” series…

Here is an exchange I had on the Facebook site entitled Anyone But Harper:

After a series of valid postings about the dangers that another Harperite government would pose, a Mr. Stephen Green writes –

Please please please…anyone but Harper. He’s got a hidden agenda…I know it, I heard it from Jack Layton! He’s going to gave us more tax dollars back and not hammer us with a carbon tax – how un-Canadian! And he has integrity, following through on his promises to lower the Small business tax rate AND cut the GST! How “un-prime ministerial” ; at least in comparison to what the Liberals have shown us. Come on folks, give our PM a little respect. Let’s not be uninformed on the issues and bow to fear mongering!

To which I responded:

Stephen: You either have not done your research or you are a ReformCon Party member.
Integrity does not mean breaking your own fixed election law.
Integrity does not mean running a government like a flavour of the month club.
Integrity does not mean appointing a non-elected Cabinet Member after railing for years about democratic reform.
Integrity does not mean launching a slew of demeaning attack ads in place of constructive policy proposals.
Integrity does not mean demeaning the same province that you represent (Jim F. has done this a few times.
Integrity does not mean telling members of a First Nation band to stay sober if they want to meet the Minister.
I could go on but my fingers are getting tired.
Stevo does NOT deserve my respect and neither does the bulk of his party (though I do have a great deal of respect for Jim Prentice and Peter McCay).
So, Mr. Green, you should really think about what you’re posting if you want to make a sensible contribution to a constructive debate.

I think that this is the biggest tell-tale feature of the Harper government. They have preached integrity and transparency but have practiced just the opposite.

‘Nuff said for the moment.

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9 Comments to “Why not to vote for Harper… Part 4”

  1. Bonkers I can manage…

  2. trashee says:

    Don’t need those skills. Need to have a thick skin, a bit of a bankroll, some stamina and, most of all… you have to be a little bonkers.

  3. In fact, I agree that the NDP in Ontario got a bit of a rough ride. Their critical mistake was trying to do too much too fast. Instead of cranking spending they should have put out the immediate fires and then maybe worked toward bringing in programs… in effect taking the left wing but with a more small-c conservative approach.

    Instead they dove in with a change the world approach, and ended up shooting themselves in the head.

    So you’re in McGuintia as well. Heh. Despite years of being a big-C conservative, I can’t say I’m champing at the bit to vote Conservative this time. I’m really lost on this one, and the feeling is exascerbated by the fact that McGuinty is pretty much guaranteed to win anyway.

    I’ve toyed with running for office a few times, but I’m not sure I have enough of the “works and plays well with others” skills to be a politician 🙂

  4. blogoffanddie says:

    ..the Conservative Party is a lot like a box of chocolates, you’re never sure where the nuts are whereas the Liberal Party has no nuts…

    Vote NDP

    http://theimpolitecanadian.wordpress.com/

    Stephen Harper has his head so far up George Bush’s back passage that George could get a gig as the two-headed freak at a traveling sideshow.

  5. trashee says:

    Maybe you and I should both run for office. Maybe even for the same party. Campaigns are a blast! I ran in ’93 for the now-defunct National Party of Canada – you can verify this by going to the Elections Canada site.
    Re: “My favourite piece of NDP bureaucracy was the form that a company had to fill out each year (and pay $50ish to have processed) to report that the company had filled out no other forms that year.”
    I almost rolled over in my cube reading this! I remember doing the same thing while working for my family’s construction biz in the Parry Sound area. You think that the Dippers caused paperwork for the average dude? Well, try being a construction company. In Muskoka. That works around shorelines and sensitive areas. I remember well a big argument (damn close to a fight) I got into with some guy from the MNR… over whether a red-tailed hawk had been sighted on a particular property in the preceding 5 years…”
    Grrr….
    Nonetheless, *I still feel that the Dippers were given a hard ride. They were elected just as a recession hit and had to make unpopular choices. We can agree to disagree on the merits or evils of their policies while in government. But I think we can agree on their propensity to over-govern.
    I’m a lefty and proud of it – but on the social side of things. And that is why I’m railing against Harper and not really supporting any single party I’m voting for the candidate (and happen to be in the same riding as you).
    Harper will indeed bring in socially conservative legislation and I don’t care what the pundits are saying but most Canadians do NOT want to move in this direction.
    Oh – and I am a few years older than you – but only a few.

  6. Squid says:

    Actually, if I could vote however I wanted…

    … I’d vote that all 300+ of them be fired, along with all the senators, and require that totally new people run. Because, honestly, I don’t think that a whole slate of new people could be any worse.

  7. Squid says:

    Yeah, I can be a windbag. I was going to do a blog article similar to this thread, but you beat me to it. Curse you! 🙂

    >>There was no “bankrupting” happening except for the teachers and the doctors as they bankrupted themselves in piling up the dogma against the Dippers. I know. I was there in spades and a municipal politician. Local governments were never better done by than with the NDP and local is where it happens – both practically and in spirit.

    I saw taxes go up (a Rae income tax increase caused me to quit my job in 1993 as the increase reduced my take-home pay below my military salary from the year before… and you’d think that as a federal public servant I’d have been well insulated). I eventually started my own company only to be bogged down in NDP paperwork. Laws were changed to simplify getting unions into businesses. No thanks. I saw paperwork go up, I saw jobs go down. I almost fled to Arizona with my company. Only the resistance of my wife not wanting to move (she was a teacher no less… heh… if she’d only known what was coming).

    Even if you accept the NDP’s assessment of the deficit when they took power (i.e. the WORST CASE estimate), the NDP piled on 60 BILLION dollars of debt, more than doubling Ontario’s total debt to that point. The damage the NDP did went far beyond torquing up some teachers, and I can only conjecture that you must be too young to remember or are seriously misinformed. In 5 years they destroyed an economy that the Liberals and Conservatives before them couldn’t destroy.

    I also lived in British Columbia under the NDP before moving to Ontario, and remember the same things happening there to a smaller scale.

    My favourite piece of NDP bureaucracy was the form that a company had to fill out each year (and pay $50ish to have processed) to report that the company had filled out no other forms that year. It made me want to drive to Toronto and shove the cheque right up BR’s arse. Brought in by Bob Rae’s NDP, it was a bit of administrivia removed promptly by the succeeding government because it was bollocks and nothing more.

    The succeeding Conservatives consolidated beds and closed hospitals – an unpopular move to be sure… but it was the NDP that closed the beds in the first place, leaving half-empty hospitals languishing all over the province.

    It was the NDP that brutalized the education system.

    It was the NDP that drove the provincial debt to record levels and damaged the economy of the whole country.

    It was the NDP that raised taxes on people and businesses and still couldn’t make ends meet. It was the NDP that raised the retail sales tax to 8%, in violation of NDP progressive taxation principles (consumption taxes hurt people with lower incomes more).

    John, you’ve bought into NDP dogma. I think we’re approximately the same age (43).

    I stand by the comment. I work hard for my money and I will not abide the NDP taking away the fruits of my labour to fund misguided social programs while they increase taxes and drive business into the ground. NDP = fiscal pain for everyone… always has, always will. They make a great opposition, but a lousy government.

    Not that I’m all cuddles and smiles for the federal Conservatives. They’ve tabled some stunningly bad legislation that mercifully died on the order paper with the election call. Bull C-61 (heh, I went for the “i” but I guess there was a Freudian slip) the copyright bill is an abomination. So too was the arts funding bill that related funding to a very thinly veiled censorship board that would judge the “taste” in art that is being submitted for funding. I really don’t want to see that stuff come back. The provincial Conservatives made some colossal screw-ups too (downloading, exempting seniors from school taxes)… most of which, I note, the Liberals have done nothing to fix or have made worse. They did, however, pretty much stop spending money we didn’t have, or at least curtailed the spending sharply and tried to pay the bills. People can rag about that all they want, but you can’t spend forever, even if you’re the government.

    It may surprise you to know that when I was a youth, I was an NDP supporter. I became conservative when the government started punishing me for enjoying a modicum of success with their surtaxes on middle-class incomes. I come from a poor family, so I grew up steeped in NDP rhetoric. I couldn’t imagine why anyone would want to go Conservative… until I started getting my own paycheques.

    I’ll grant the Bob Rae’s NDP this… my wife was a teacher but got so fed up with the NDP that she quit teaching, went back to school for another diploma and got into IT where she now makes more money and is happier. To be fair, I suppose I owe them for that.

  8. trashee says:

    Well Darin – let me congratulate you for having, by far, the longest comment ever left in response to one of my humble scribblings.

    I am in awe. 🙂

    I agree with your right-of-centre ramblings to a point. But when you say:

    “NDP? Sorry, I have a job and work hard for my money. I have no intention of handing it over to the government to blow on a host of misguided social programs while they increase taxes and drive business into the ground. Remember Bob Rae’s Ontario? An NDP government will bankrupt the country, as would a Liberal-NDP coalition.”

    Sorry brother, but you either are not old enough or are misinformed about what happened in those NDP years in ON.

    There was no “bankrupting” happening except for the teachers and the doctors as they bankrupted themselves in piling up the dogma against the Dippers. I know. I was there in spades and a municipal politician. Local governments were never better done by than with the NDP and local is where it happens – both practically and in spirit.

    Darin – you have bought into the ReformCon dogma and I’m a bit disspaointed since I have taken ypou for a reasonable (and debate-worthy) brethren.

    C’mon – you can do better than this! Gimme something to sink my teeth into!

    Maybe I should run for the Grits and you for the Harperites – at least the repartee would be interesting!

  9. The problem with an “anyone but Harper” approach is that none of the rest of them are any better.

    The Liberals have no vision, and historically, have demonstrated time and time again that they are no less corrupt than the Conservatives. They are big on tax and spend, and tend to be big on “pander to Quebec”. That’s not for me any more than the Conservative bill C-61 and a host of other Conservative legislation is. They’ve refused to take a stand on any principles for a year, even though they could have, on a whim, brought down the government. There’s nothing more two-faced than that and I think the Liberals have been given a free ride on that very issue so far.

    NDP? Sorry, I have a job and work hard for my money. I have no intention of handing it over to the government to blow on a host of misguided social programs while they increase taxes and drive business into the ground. Remember Bob Rae’s Ontario? An NDP government will bankrupt the country, as would a Liberal-NDP coalition.

    Green? They’re a one-note orchestra. Any tune they can play beyond that single note smacks of NDP. There’s only room for so much insanity in Parliament and NDP pretty much fills the quota. They don’t even talk a good game, I’m quite convinced they can’t play it.

    Gilles Duceppe is probably the brightest and most reasonable of the potential prime ministers… reasonable right up until you remember he’s the leader of a disloyal party that wants to break up the country and shouldn’t even be allowed to set foot in parliament. Mercifully, their influence is irrelevant to 76% of the country.

    One can usually vote independent, of course, but in a whipped system like we have, voting independent is the electoral equivalent of tossing your ballot in the rubbish bin.

    It is worth noting that “flavour of month” government is a hallmark of minority government. You can’t hold the Conservatives to the fire over that because ANY minority government would have that issue and history has shown that. A minority government has to bend to the whims of the other parties somewhat or we’ll end up with an Italian-style series of elections.

    Integrity and demeaning people are not related. It shows integrity to say what you mean, even if doing so is distasteful and demonstrates that you’re an intellectual midget. It would be demonstrative of a lack of integrity to say the nice thing and act on the nasty thing… Like when Trudeau said he wouldn’t raise taxes by 3% then raised them 7% instead… or when Chretien opposed the GST when he was not prime minister, but refused to get rid of it when he came to power. Those sorts of things show a lack of integrity.

    I’ve not seen any of the current crop of leaders who has earned respect, and I find that really disturbing because it really seems the choice is going to come down to the lesser of 4-or-more evils.

    It’s a bit moot for me in any case. David McGuinty is the incumbent in my riding. The Liberals could run Satan himself against Mother Teresa for the Conservatives and Lech Walesa for the NDP and people in my riding would vote Red just because.

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